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	<title>Comments for TrustTheVote - An OSDV Project</title>
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	<link>http://www.trustthevote.org</link>
	<description>Re-inventing How America Votes</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:21:03 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on OSDV at Personal Democracy Forum (PdF2008) &#8212; How to Trust the Vote by uricyintert</title>
		<link>http://www.trustthevote.org/osdv_personal_democracy_forum_pdf2008_how_trust_vote/comment-page-1#comment-17599</link>
		<dc:creator>uricyintert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2011 15:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wordpress.trustthevote.org/2008/06/05/osdv-at-personal-democracy-forum-pdf2008-how-to-trust-the-vote#comment-17599</guid>
		<description>Guy .. Excellent .. Amazing .. I will bookmark your web site and take the feeds additionallyI am happy to find so many helpful info right here within the submit, we need work out extra techniques in this regard, thank you for sharing. . . . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guy .. Excellent .. Amazing .. I will bookmark your web site and take the feeds additionallyI am happy to find so many helpful info right here within the submit, we need work out extra techniques in this regard, thank you for sharing. . . . . .</p>
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		<title>Comment on An Independence Holiday Reflection: IP Reform and Innovation in Elections Technology by Mimi Kennedy Dilg</title>
		<link>http://www.trustthevote.org/an-independence-holiday-reflection-ip-reform-and-innovation-in-elections-technology/comment-page-1#comment-17593</link>
		<dc:creator>Mimi Kennedy Dilg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Sep 2011 21:47:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trustthevote.org/?p=8419#comment-17593</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m interested in OSDV&#039;s work and have been for years. Alas, I become less sure of digital voting in any form, but I am convinced of the integrity of your efforts. This wrinkle - I got through this article on BMPs and think I understand, but am still trying to plug in the awful lawsuits-for-profit story I heard on NPR about people suing about patents constantly (I think based on anyone innovating (BMP style) on an original patent, but not sur) and understand whether that is concurrent damage with the part of the law OSDV objects to, or applies to some other part of patent law. At any rate, this is very troubling. And I applaud John for citing the picking of winners and losers, by owners of patents (giant companies)  based on political affiliation as a big threat ( i.e., winners must subscribe to the proper ideology -- this is old Soviet style business - be a Party member and all good will come to you - otherwise, you&#039;re a Loser and it&#039;s your own stubborn fault. And it has already happened here in many areas, if not yet with the technology patents. But where the capacity exists, it will occur.)  I increasingly believe our elections must pump up the people power - the citizen observation of a tangible process and chain of custody through tabulation- even as you work on your end with the technology to present the kind of human corruption that occurs without a check and balance to people-only process in what can become local fiefdoms, controlled by local power brokers who prefer profit - or ideology- to democracy and act accordingly.  I look forward to reading more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m interested in OSDV&#8217;s work and have been for years. Alas, I become less sure of digital voting in any form, but I am convinced of the integrity of your efforts. This wrinkle &#8211; I got through this article on BMPs and think I understand, but am still trying to plug in the awful lawsuits-for-profit story I heard on NPR about people suing about patents constantly (I think based on anyone innovating (BMP style) on an original patent, but not sur) and understand whether that is concurrent damage with the part of the law OSDV objects to, or applies to some other part of patent law. At any rate, this is very troubling. And I applaud John for citing the picking of winners and losers, by owners of patents (giant companies)  based on political affiliation as a big threat ( i.e., winners must subscribe to the proper ideology &#8212; this is old Soviet style business &#8211; be a Party member and all good will come to you &#8211; otherwise, you&#8217;re a Loser and it&#8217;s your own stubborn fault. And it has already happened here in many areas, if not yet with the technology patents. But where the capacity exists, it will occur.)  I increasingly believe our elections must pump up the people power &#8211; the citizen observation of a tangible process and chain of custody through tabulation- even as you work on your end with the technology to present the kind of human corruption that occurs without a check and balance to people-only process in what can become local fiefdoms, controlled by local power brokers who prefer profit &#8211; or ideology- to democracy and act accordingly.  I look forward to reading more.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An Independence Holiday Reflection: IP Reform and Innovation in Elections Technology by Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.trustthevote.org/an-independence-holiday-reflection-ip-reform-and-innovation-in-elections-technology/comment-page-1#comment-17473</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trustthevote.org/?p=8419#comment-17473</guid>
		<description>By NPL above, I meant to say non-practicing entities..  Really not a fan of acronyms..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By NPL above, I meant to say non-practicing entities..  Really not a fan of acronyms..</p>
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		<title>Comment on An Independence Holiday Reflection: IP Reform and Innovation in Elections Technology by Michelle</title>
		<link>http://www.trustthevote.org/an-independence-holiday-reflection-ip-reform-and-innovation-in-elections-technology/comment-page-1#comment-17467</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2011 20:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trustthevote.org/?p=8419#comment-17467</guid>
		<description>From your description of section 18, it is curious that they single out banks as being entitled to special recourse (in the form of an expanded list of prior art that an be submitted for the reexamination procedure?) against BMPs. Maybe its because banks are the easiest targets for NPL originated infringement suits. 

At any rate, I&#039;m not really worried about any &quot;due process&quot; dilutions (that is, giving greater evidential review powers to reexamination examiners who I understand are special, more experienced examiners in the corps) somehow chilling the filing of &quot;worthy&quot; BMPs. I&#039;ve not read section 18 (but I will now! great blog post!), but I hope to find that the overarching spirit of section 18 was to prevent banks (who albeit, have lobbying power) from being extorted by litigious NPLs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From your description of section 18, it is curious that they single out banks as being entitled to special recourse (in the form of an expanded list of prior art that an be submitted for the reexamination procedure?) against BMPs. Maybe its because banks are the easiest targets for NPL originated infringement suits. </p>
<p>At any rate, I&#8217;m not really worried about any &#8220;due process&#8221; dilutions (that is, giving greater evidential review powers to reexamination examiners who I understand are special, more experienced examiners in the corps) somehow chilling the filing of &#8220;worthy&#8221; BMPs. I&#8217;ve not read section 18 (but I will now! great blog post!), but I hope to find that the overarching spirit of section 18 was to prevent banks (who albeit, have lobbying power) from being extorted by litigious NPLs.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Election Transparency Must be Apolitical by Frank Henry</title>
		<link>http://www.trustthevote.org/election-transparency-must-be-apolitical/comment-page-1#comment-17155</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2011 19:51:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trustthevote.org/?p=8329#comment-17155</guid>
		<description>Hi,

Today:
…there are NOT appropriate steps that make sure the outcome of elections, can withstand scrutiny...

Before the next election (fed, state, local):
...there WILL be appropriate steps to ensure the outcome...

Good News:
Wisconsin&#039;s state wide vote count accuracy rate is approx 99.82%.
(Put another way, its error rate is approx 0.18%)  These numbers
were figured from the raw info found on WI GAB public web page
for the justice race recount.

Wisconsin seems to have a higher consideration for voters&#039; &quot;Full
Voting Rights&quot; than many other states that have been reviewed.

One of the good steps Wisconsin has is the higher recount 
consideration levels.  Some states only allow a niggardly 0.1%.

A &quot;Fill Voting Right&quot; vote count should have three major steps:

1.  Closing Count on election day.
     a)  All ballots should be counted on election day at their assigned
     precincts.  Yes, that includes early ballots, absentee ballots,
     military ballots...etc, and electionday ballots. (there should be
     no provisional ballots...if the want-to-be voter qualifies, the
     voter get a ballot.)
     b)  Complete election day reports; seal machines, if used;...etc.
     c)  and before workers and official go home perform step 2.
     
2.  Verification hand count.
     a)  Hand count every vote on every ballot and record results on
          verification count report.  This count will include voters intent.
     b)  If the verification count equals the closing count, then the
          closing count becomes the official count for that precinct.
      c)  If the verification count is not the same as the closing count,
           then the verification count becomes the official count for that
          precinct.

3.   Recount
      a)  Anyone can request a recount.
      b)  A fee should be charged with the request. (fee refundable if
           outcome changes)
      c)  The election budget shall cover the cost of the recount.

These three steps should be applied to all elections (fed, state, local).

The location of these three step should be published and made open
to the public.

These three steps shall be made part of election laws...and then
spelled out in election procedures.

These three steps give honor and respect to the voters...and voters
need to pay-back by volunteering as a electionworker/official.

These three step may/will minimize the chain-of-custody issues 
throughout the counting process.

Of great importance the above three steps move the public confidence
level from 0%  to 100%.  Right now in many states this level is at 0%.

These three steps give the voter prime considerations...not to us
election workers and election officials. Thats why we workers and
officials volunteered...we are here to serve.


Thanks and Good Luck,

Frank Henry
Election Worker
Former Election Official
(Election Integrity (EI) Observer)
Cottonwood,  Arizona
Tel:  928-649-0249
e-mail:  fmhenry4@netzero.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>Today:<br />
…there are NOT appropriate steps that make sure the outcome of elections, can withstand scrutiny&#8230;</p>
<p>Before the next election (fed, state, local):<br />
&#8230;there WILL be appropriate steps to ensure the outcome&#8230;</p>
<p>Good News:<br />
Wisconsin&#8217;s state wide vote count accuracy rate is approx 99.82%.<br />
(Put another way, its error rate is approx 0.18%)  These numbers<br />
were figured from the raw info found on WI GAB public web page<br />
for the justice race recount.</p>
<p>Wisconsin seems to have a higher consideration for voters&#8217; &#8220;Full<br />
Voting Rights&#8221; than many other states that have been reviewed.</p>
<p>One of the good steps Wisconsin has is the higher recount<br />
consideration levels.  Some states only allow a niggardly 0.1%.</p>
<p>A &#8220;Fill Voting Right&#8221; vote count should have three major steps:</p>
<p>1.  Closing Count on election day.<br />
     a)  All ballots should be counted on election day at their assigned<br />
     precincts.  Yes, that includes early ballots, absentee ballots,<br />
     military ballots&#8230;etc, and electionday ballots. (there should be<br />
     no provisional ballots&#8230;if the want-to-be voter qualifies, the<br />
     voter get a ballot.)<br />
     b)  Complete election day reports; seal machines, if used;&#8230;etc.<br />
     c)  and before workers and official go home perform step 2.</p>
<p>2.  Verification hand count.<br />
     a)  Hand count every vote on every ballot and record results on<br />
          verification count report.  This count will include voters intent.<br />
     b)  If the verification count equals the closing count, then the<br />
          closing count becomes the official count for that precinct.<br />
      c)  If the verification count is not the same as the closing count,<br />
           then the verification count becomes the official count for that<br />
          precinct.</p>
<p>3.   Recount<br />
      a)  Anyone can request a recount.<br />
      b)  A fee should be charged with the request. (fee refundable if<br />
           outcome changes)<br />
      c)  The election budget shall cover the cost of the recount.</p>
<p>These three steps should be applied to all elections (fed, state, local).</p>
<p>The location of these three step should be published and made open<br />
to the public.</p>
<p>These three steps shall be made part of election laws&#8230;and then<br />
spelled out in election procedures.</p>
<p>These three steps give honor and respect to the voters&#8230;and voters<br />
need to pay-back by volunteering as a electionworker/official.</p>
<p>These three step may/will minimize the chain-of-custody issues<br />
throughout the counting process.</p>
<p>Of great importance the above three steps move the public confidence<br />
level from 0%  to 100%.  Right now in many states this level is at 0%.</p>
<p>These three steps give the voter prime considerations&#8230;not to us<br />
election workers and election officials. Thats why we workers and<br />
officials volunteered&#8230;we are here to serve.</p>
<p>Thanks and Good Luck,</p>
<p>Frank Henry<br />
Election Worker<br />
Former Election Official<br />
(Election Integrity (EI) Observer)<br />
Cottonwood,  Arizona<br />
Tel:  928-649-0249<br />
e-mail:  <a href="mailto:fmhenry4@netzero.com">fmhenry4@netzero.com</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Election Transparency Must be Apolitical by Cal Skinner</title>
		<link>http://www.trustthevote.org/election-transparency-must-be-apolitical/comment-page-1#comment-17149</link>
		<dc:creator>Cal Skinner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 May 2011 18:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trustthevote.org/?p=8329#comment-17149</guid>
		<description>Some of us in Illinois would like to see more transparency in the reapportionment process as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some of us in Illinois would like to see more transparency in the reapportionment process as well.</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Digital Pollbooks Can Ease the Voter ID Challenge by E. John Sebes</title>
		<link>http://www.trustthevote.org/how-digital-pollbooks-can-ease-the-voter-id-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-14725</link>
		<dc:creator>E. John Sebes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Feb 2011 04:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trustthevote.org/?p=6889#comment-14725</guid>
		<description>Preston -- 
Thanks for giving me the chance to clarify a poorly worded remark &quot;It&#039;s a bad idea to trust poll workers&quot; to do a voter-ID check. A more accurate statement would be this: the more responsibility and authority that your put on volunteer poll workers, then the greater the scope for volunteer errors to dis-enfranchise voters. Like you, my experience is that poll workers are trying to be honest and accurate. However, good faith attempts at accuracy can still fail for any number of reasons - lack of training, a long 18 hour work day ... As for the honesty and trust, the issue is not that widespread lack of honesty, but rather the perception that volunteers have power that when used accurately could be perceived as lacking in probity. When there is increased scope for perception of ill intent, then there is increased scope for lack of trust in election integrity. So, when we can reduce the scope of volunteer error, we increase the trustworthiness of process of conducting an election. 
-- EJS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preston &#8212;<br />
Thanks for giving me the chance to clarify a poorly worded remark &#8220;It&#8217;s a bad idea to trust poll workers&#8221; to do a voter-ID check. A more accurate statement would be this: the more responsibility and authority that your put on volunteer poll workers, then the greater the scope for volunteer errors to dis-enfranchise voters. Like you, my experience is that poll workers are trying to be honest and accurate. However, good faith attempts at accuracy can still fail for any number of reasons &#8211; lack of training, a long 18 hour work day &#8230; As for the honesty and trust, the issue is not that widespread lack of honesty, but rather the perception that volunteers have power that when used accurately could be perceived as lacking in probity. When there is increased scope for perception of ill intent, then there is increased scope for lack of trust in election integrity. So, when we can reduce the scope of volunteer error, we increase the trustworthiness of process of conducting an election.<br />
&#8211; EJS</p>
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		<title>Comment on How Digital Pollbooks Can Ease the Voter ID Challenge by Preston L. Bannister</title>
		<link>http://www.trustthevote.org/how-digital-pollbooks-can-ease-the-voter-id-challenge/comment-page-1#comment-14569</link>
		<dc:creator>Preston L. Bannister</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Feb 2011 07:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trustthevote.org/?p=6889#comment-14569</guid>
		<description>With some of your assertions, I differ.

&quot;It’s a bad idea to trust poll workers to accurately and honestly perform the check...&quot; 

As I have hosted the local polling place for quite a number of years, in my experience poll workers are trying to be both honest and accurate. (Not that they had any choice of anything else in my polling place - but there was never a conflict between my ethics and that manifested by my poll workers.) 

Lets be very clear on the critical part of the problem ... poll workers have very limited information and time with which to find a solution ... but as a pragmatic matter, I think that particular part of the process works very well. Going into the polling place, looking at folk who may be your neighbors, makes claiming to be someone you are not ... is subjectively very risky ... unless the polling place serves so many folk that anonymity is expected.

On a purely analytic basis, the process looks more risky than in practice.

On the flip side, I view the vote-by-mail process as enormously ... nay, VASTLY weaker and easier to subvert. The weak spots in the current vote-by-mail scheme are radically weaker then the old fashioned polling place - when accounting for usual human tendencies.

With regards to provisional votes ... how many regular folk believe their votes are counted, and make a difference? In the current voting process, regular folk have no idea if their vote is counted, and vote more as a matter of principle. No one knows if they made an actual measurable difference.

The current voting process has near zero confidence on the part of the bulk of voters (yet some folk always vote ... in hope of the best outcome). Noting the idealism inherent in regular voters should not be a small thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With some of your assertions, I differ.</p>
<p>&#8220;It’s a bad idea to trust poll workers to accurately and honestly perform the check&#8230;&#8221; </p>
<p>As I have hosted the local polling place for quite a number of years, in my experience poll workers are trying to be both honest and accurate. (Not that they had any choice of anything else in my polling place &#8211; but there was never a conflict between my ethics and that manifested by my poll workers.) </p>
<p>Lets be very clear on the critical part of the problem &#8230; poll workers have very limited information and time with which to find a solution &#8230; but as a pragmatic matter, I think that particular part of the process works very well. Going into the polling place, looking at folk who may be your neighbors, makes claiming to be someone you are not &#8230; is subjectively very risky &#8230; unless the polling place serves so many folk that anonymity is expected.</p>
<p>On a purely analytic basis, the process looks more risky than in practice.</p>
<p>On the flip side, I view the vote-by-mail process as enormously &#8230; nay, VASTLY weaker and easier to subvert. The weak spots in the current vote-by-mail scheme are radically weaker then the old fashioned polling place &#8211; when accounting for usual human tendencies.</p>
<p>With regards to provisional votes &#8230; how many regular folk believe their votes are counted, and make a difference? In the current voting process, regular folk have no idea if their vote is counted, and vote more as a matter of principle. No one knows if they made an actual measurable difference.</p>
<p>The current voting process has near zero confidence on the part of the bulk of voters (yet some folk always vote &#8230; in hope of the best outcome). Noting the idealism inherent in regular voters should not be a small thing.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Tabulator Technology Troubles by Marilyn Marks</title>
		<link>http://www.trustthevote.org/tabulator-technology-troubles/comment-page-1#comment-12769</link>
		<dc:creator>Marilyn Marks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Dec 2010 04:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trustthevote.org/?p=6655#comment-12769</guid>
		<description>See More of Teresa&#039;s excellent reporting on this mess at:
http://www.centerpostdispatch.com/v2_news_articles.php?heading=0&amp;story_id=1397&amp;page=72

Also see letters from the canvass board to the SOS at :
http://www.glassballotbox.org/journal/2010/12/5/saguache-county-colorado-2010-election-irregularities.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See More of Teresa&#8217;s excellent reporting on this mess at:<br />
<a href="http://www.centerpostdispatch.com/v2_news_articles.php?heading=0&amp;story_id=1397&amp;page=72" rel="nofollow">http://www.centerpostdispatch.com/v2_news_articles.php?heading=0&amp;story_id=1397&amp;page=72</a></p>
<p>Also see letters from the canvass board to the SOS at :<br />
<a href="http://www.glassballotbox.org/journal/2010/12/5/saguache-county-colorado-2010-election-irregularities.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.glassballotbox.org/journal/2010/12/5/saguache-county-colorado-2010-election-irregularities.html</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Alabama: Vendor Supplies Pencils for Marking Ballots by Gregory Miller</title>
		<link>http://www.trustthevote.org/alabama-vendor-supplies-pencils-for-marking-ballots/comment-page-1#comment-12169</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Miller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2010 19:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.trustthevote.org/?p=6517#comment-12169</guid>
		<description>Preston-
Thanks for your clarifications.  I&#039;ll lean out on a limb here, knowing the writer, and point out that it was an unintentional slip-up (and Gadsden has been corrected). In this medium of spontaneous commentary, misspellings and slip-up of descriptions are unfortunately common.  And it is thanks to the watchful eyes of individuals like yourself that help keep it real.  So, I kinda disagree that yours was a &quot;meaningless clarification.&quot;  As someone focused on ballot design myself, the difference between a fill-in bubble and a connect-the-line mark are distinctions of significance. Thanks for reading and commenting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preston-<br />
Thanks for your clarifications.  I&#8217;ll lean out on a limb here, knowing the writer, and point out that it was an unintentional slip-up (and Gadsden has been corrected). In this medium of spontaneous commentary, misspellings and slip-up of descriptions are unfortunately common.  And it is thanks to the watchful eyes of individuals like yourself that help keep it real.  So, I kinda disagree that yours was a &#8220;meaningless clarification.&#8221;  As someone focused on ballot design myself, the difference between a fill-in bubble and a connect-the-line mark are distinctions of significance. Thanks for reading and commenting.</p>
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